[SUX VR40 Rider]

Originally Posted by Skidmark

I can travel from FL to SD with a CCW as they are have receprical agreement on CCW permits. But I can NOT drive across the river to Nebraska. My CCW travels in my bow case without problems if luggage is checked all the way though.

Hack, Thats awesome. I wish I was bright enough to write well enough to get paid for it.

What part of SD? When you travel from FL to SD are you driving or flying? If you are driving what about the other states you drive through to get to SD?

[Industry_Hack]

Originally Posted by Barmy

Think of the following:
According to NYPD SOP-9 (Standard Operating Procedure #9) data, in the year 2000, only 9% of shots fired by officers engaged in gunfights actually hit perpetrators at which they were fired[citation needed]. In the same year, there were a total of 129 "shooting incidents" (including non-gunfights, such as officers firing at aggressive dogs, unarmed or fleeing perpetrators, etc.), 471 total shots fired by officers, 367 shots fired at perpetrators, and 58 total hits on perpetrators by police. So, when non-gunfight shooting data is added, the rate at which police hit what they aim at in real life situations is typically only 15.8%. By either measure, the vast majority of bullets were not stopped by hitting perpetrators, but ultimately encountered some other object. The propensity of these "stray" bullets to pass through windows, walls, car doors, etc. and possibly injure bystanders is a concern, and falls into the overall risk/benefit calculation when considering how much penetration is enough.

Not only are these trained and tested officers of the law only hit what they're aiming at 15% of the time, but they are using weapons with much more stopping power than what a cyclyst would have. So even if you can hit what you're aiming at 15% of the time, it probably won't stop what you hit only make it much more determined in their attack.

l I can say is good luck

Barmy, I don't want to chase you off with an argument, but where are you getting this information? Let me present a logical counter to the what you've just posted.

Standard issue for a police officer used to be a .38 revolver. In most cases, that's been replaced by a 9mm, due to increased capacity. Have a look at this photo. Instead of a revolver holding six .38 special rounds (the lower one), a cop can now have 12-16 or more of the 9mm (the upper round) in a single magazine.



Studies have shown that in some cases, 9mm rounds were not able to penetrate heavy jackets and create an effective wound channel. The very notion of them passing through walls and car doors is, at best, some anti-gun fantasy propagated by the media. It's just not very likely. On the other hand, the .357 magnum, which is simply that same diameter round in a longer shell (more powder) can punch through several sheets of drywall with ease. But you're not likely to find a cop carrying one.

It's also interesting to note that the 10 year old data you referred to was for New York City. There are very few states in this country that have chosen to outlaw handguns completely. New York is one of them. I don't know the exact wording of their laws, but I do know that unlike other states, where you can own a handgun to shoot at the range or other approved areas, (in Utah, most non-government owned land outside city limits is fair game) the residents of NYC don't get a lot of opportunity to shoot guns. Bear with me, I'm going someplace with this. Most cops are not shooters that decided to become LEO. Some may have come from the military, but the majority, especially in someplace like NY, do not have 10-20 years of shooting behind them when they sign up. And it shows in their shooting record. Compare that to your recreational shooter that has decided to carry. I went to the range for the first time on my 13th birthday. Subtract the three years I lived in Australia, and I still have 20+ years of shooting experience. That includes classroom discussions, and range training at both public and police ranges, along with reading countless articles on both the laws regarding lethal force, and the laws of physics when it comes to that little copper-jacketed piece of lead striking objects, human or otherwise. If you do a little research, I'm sure you'll find that your average shooting enthusiast has more experience than your average police officer, and probably has a better record when it comes to hitting and killing their intended target in a gunfight.

[eaton]

I'd carry a second tube, a bigger multitool, a vest and arm warmers before carting around a gun.

[Barmy]

You gun carriers are much better shape than most of us. Not only do you carry cannons for the stopping power (no need for carbon fiber if your adding 3-4 lbs of stopping power) but as you ride your heart rate is always below 120 bpm so you have a steady hand to shoot (after coming to a complete stop because you haven't practice shooting from a moving bike, reaching for your c.w. which I assume is concealed, and letting loose at a moving target while your adrenalen is pumping uncontrolably because of the incident that has you reaching for your gun).

You guys must be SUPERMAN in disguise...!!!!!

[Industry_Hack]

Originally Posted by Barmy

You gun carriers are much better shape than most of us. Not only do you carry cannons for the stopping power (no need for carbon fiber if your adding 3-4 lbs of stopping power) but as you ride your heart rate is always below 120 bpm so you have a steady hand to shoot (after coming to a complete stop because you haven't practice shooting from a moving bike, reaching for your c.w. which I assume is concealed, and letting loose at a moving target while your adrenalen is pumping uncontrolably because of the incident that has you reaching for your gun).

You guys must be SUPERMAN in disguise...!!!!!

Hey, that extra 23 ounces (plus ammo) is not going to be noticed over the extra weight I carry anyway...

For what it's worth, I really can't envision an incident where a moving cyclist would even attempt to draw their weapon.

[chocolatediet]

As a new cyclist I'm concerned for my safety as I ride a semi-wilderness 35 m. paved trail on the outskirts of Las Vegas. I'm not very fast yet so I know I can't outride anything intending to eat me. There are coyotes for sure and I imagine two-legged varmits lurking, tho pretty unlikely. Even in town it's a gamble: A 4 mo. old baby was killed & his mother wounded by a psycho with a hatchet last week in the center of town. We live in the wild west for sure & it's getting more wild every day. Ya'll probably heard of the recent death of the 19 yr. old woman killed by coyotes back east. So, with these concerns, should I carry a conceled weapon...I think brandishing it in the open would draw negative attention...and if so, how would I strap it on my body so I don't have to dismount, unzip & fumble around to get at my gun? I am not a gun affectionado nor do I ever want to hurt someone if at all avoidable...but I don't want to be naive. I like to take my kids with me on rides & feel obligated to provide for their safety. What do you think?

[funetical]

Originally Posted by Barmy

You gun carriers are much better shape than most of us. Not only do you carry cannons for the stopping power (no need for carbon fiber if your adding 3-4 lbs of stopping power) but as you ride your heart rate is always below 120 bpm so you have a steady hand to shoot (after coming to a complete stop because you haven't practice shooting from a moving bike, reaching for your c.w. which I assume is concealed, and letting loose at a moving target while your adrenalen is pumping uncontrolably because of the incident that has you reaching for your gun).

You guys must be SUPERMAN in disguise...!!!!!

Bike cops carry guns. Your assuming something extraordinary for an every day occurrence. You disagree? Cool. I understand. The ability to do so though was decided by firearms. Why do you hate them so much?

[Skidmark]

Hack, Ruger LCP is under 10 oz. minus amo. I hope you are right. Dismounting and getting the bike between myslef and the threat is always my first plan.

Thankfully there is still freedom of speach and choice in this country! Having second ammendment rights work for me as well. I have encountered bears, panthers, red wolves, snakes, and some two legged predators in less than a year of riding in rural areas. Having protection just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. How I carry it, and how I deploy it will remain with me. Rest assured that if I do choose to deploy it, speed will not be and issue nor will my heart rate be. That Bright red dot makes sure that good gun control is being able to hit your target.

[Industry_Hack]

Originally Posted by Skidmark

Hack, Ruger LCP is under 10 oz. minus amo.

But it's a .380, isn't it?

[chocolatediet]

Barmy, I hit what I aim at. I regularly decrease the pigeon (rats w/wings) population in my neighborhood. I don't think those shots are calculated into your stats.

I would like to know where/how cyclists are successfully carrying a CW if anyone can offer up their 'secrets.'

BTW, my dad cycles in the UT mountains & regularly sees mountain lion, bobcat, etc. I'd certainly want a gun if one of those met me on the trail.