[Weav]

What about for the enthusiast that likes to do rides on his own and rides with friends, but doesn't want to get into a puke fest race to see who can stay on front the longest? I have a carbon Look which I like, but something tells me it's not going to be my forever bike.

I really want one of these from Merlin, if they ever start production again. http://pedaldamnit.blogspot.com/2007/07/merlin-cyrene-ageless-grace-in-motion.html

I also have a soft spot for the beautiful steel creations that Vanilla puts out, but the price, ouch!

[bikertank]

Originally Posted by Farrowlane

IMHO, carbon fiber is primarily for those who may have the occasion to race. It may be nice for weekend credit card touring or quite possibly for short recreational cycling. However, I wouldn't want to tour with a CF bike, nor would I want to commute on one. Despite the lack of eyelets or braze-ons for the necessary rack and/or fenders, there's still the possiblity of falls, collisions, and high impact encounters, such as potholes etc...

That's not to mention having to worry about where you're going to temporarily park and lock up your CF bike. There's the coincidental scrapes and scratches to think about too. You do know that CF abhors a mere scratch. Scratches, if left unattended, absorb moisture and will compromise the integrity of the frame. Your lock can scratch your bike. Another cyclist can scratch your bike up with his bike or his lock.

OTOH, like Hack says, Ti will last darn near forever. However, you will have to pay dearly for that longevity of service. I personally, don't think it's worth it when you truly consider the efficacies of chromoly steel. Steel bikes have been known to render many decades of excellent service in many Third World countries.

IMHO, chromoly steel is a wonderful alternative to the illustrious titanium.

Farrow - light is FUN & fast, fun & fast equals more daily rides due to the fun factor alone, I would recommend LIGHT in carbon or if one could afford it Titanium to everyone who rides (except maybe MTB's & hillclimber's who are crazy about pain anyway). I ride more often and farther with my new carbon bike, and I ride more often when the gearing is right - just converted my other bike from 9 to 10 speed - because the fun factor has increased. I think everyone that rides deserves the funnest bike they can afford for the task at hand. For me that is riding as fast & far as possible while enjoying the ride. Carbon I feel is the easiest way to achieve that goal. Titanium would be also wonderful but I am not in that tax bracket.

[Farrowlane]

Originally Posted by bikertank

Farrow - light is FUN & fast, fun & fast equals more daily rides due to the fun factor alone, I would recommend LIGHT in carbon or if one could afford it Titanium to everyone who rides (except maybe MTB's & hillclimber's who are crazy about pain anyway). I ride more often and farther with my new carbon bike, and I ride more often when the gearing is right - just converted my other bike from 9 to 10 speed - because the fun factor has increased. I think everyone that rides deserves the funnest bike they can afford for the task at hand. For me that is riding as fast & far as possible while enjoying the ride. Carbon I feel is the easiest way to achieve that goal. Titanium would be also wonderful but I am not in that tax bracket.

Like I intended to say Bikertank,

If FAST is any part of the equation (like in racing), then I would certainly agree, CF would be the best way to go. However, if we're talking about lengthy treks into mysterious areas, with unknown terrain, like when touring, then you're going to need wider tires, fenders, and a rack. A carbon fiber frame works best and is more widely available, without those particular features.

If I had to commute daily on a well kept, smooth, and paved road, I'd seriously consider a CF bicycle, provided I could park it somewhere inside of my office (without a lock or kickstand).

However, if you're riding longer and faster, then apparently CF meets your needs, and you're much happier as a result. We should all find something in life that makes us happy. As long as it's legal and doesn't cause anyone else any actual harm, then I guess it shouldn't bother anybody, and nobody should object.

As for me personally, I'm beginning to think more along Oriental lines!

[John_V]

Carbon bikes are great for long distance riders. I did a century ride on my old aluminum frame Defy and I was totally worn out at the end of the ride. This year I did the same ride with my Colnago and the only thing that was somewhat tired were my legs. I can ride my bike all day and not get worn out.

[Frankie]

Wow, to each his or her own I suppose. In 2010 I purchased a 2.3 Trek aluminum road bike which was my first real road bike. I still have it, but last year in November I had a Trek project one built for myself. A project one is full carbon fiber and it's totally awesome. I have rode both bikes on several 100 miles rides as well as local rides of 10 to 50 miles. The carbon fiber wins EVERY time... With all of the above said, I just bought a Trek Super fly Al elite hard tail mountain bike and I love it as well. I will take an aluminum mtn bike and CF road bike till the cows come home. With all the above said, I am 52 years old and have only been riding a tad over 2 years now. I have only been in contact with aluminum or carbon fiber and of course a hundred years ago steel. All I really know is I LOVE to ride.

[Farrowlane]

Originally Posted by John_V

Carbon bikes are great for long distance riders. I did a century ride on my old aluminum frame Defy and I was totally worn out at the end of the ride. This year I did the same ride with my Colnago and the only thing that was somewhat tired were my legs. I can ride my bike all day and not get worn out.

So what would you do if you were on a 2 or 3 week tour?

No rack for gear and no fenders for puddles after the rain stops pouring down...

Doing centuries and short credit card weekend tours are fine, but real dedicated touring is a job for metal... Preferably steel, IMHO

[Frankie]

What is a credit card weekend tour exactly?

[Farrowlane]

Originally Posted by Frankie

Wow, to each his or her own I suppose. In 2010 I purchased a 2.3 Trek aluminum road bike which was my first real road bike. I still have it, but last year in November I had a Trek project one built for myself. A project one is full carbon fiber and it's totally awesome. I have rode both bikes on several 100 miles rides as well as local rides of 10 to 50 miles. The carbon fiber wins EVERY time... With all of the above said, I just bought a Trek Super fly Al elite hard tail mountain bike and I love it as well. I will take an aluminum mtn bike and CF road bike till the cows come home. With all the above said, I am 52 years old and have only been riding a tad over 2 years now. I have only been in contact with aluminum or carbon fiber and of course a hundred years ago steel. All I really know is I LOVE to ride.

Hey there Frankie!

Along with other frame materials, steel has also evolved. Chromoly 853, 631, Prestige Tange, and a variety of other boutique type steels are even stronger than the 4130 chromoly of yesteryear. Therefore, their tubing can be made even thinner for weight savings, if speed is a concern. Otherwise, if speed isn't a concern, then steel (4130 included) becomes my personal preference by default.

However, I do agree that CF can have a certain comforting ride quality not always experienced on steel. That said, not all CF feels so comforting...

[Farrowlane]

Originally Posted by Frankie

What is a credit card weekend tour exactly?

Credit card weekend touring is what you do when you're cycling for certain distances (usually less than 300 miles round trip), over the weekend to motels and restaurants. You therefore have no need for a rack and you can bypass the burden of carrying extra gear like tents, food, pots, rain gear, change of clothing, etc...

Of course, pure credit card touring can last for weeks, if you desire. Therefore, you can just keep going and going until your credit cards have all reached their limit.

[bikertank]

Farrow - I think the problem is how we see biking - you are a biker commuter. THe bike performs many functions in your life. That is the reason it must be sturdy, have finders, etc. Many of us just ride for the exercise or the fun of the ride. Purely a different take. i would love to be in a position to commute to work. Not really doable in this area for many reasons but I am only to happy to simply drive more car as long as I can ride at other times. We all have strong feelings for our bikes for different reasons. I think it is best if we don't pigeon hole bikes or their riders. I totally see your slant, I can even see why some might want a single speed, but WHY? Because it is personal but variable because we all have different goals. If the apocalypse was to occur I want a steel bike with fenders, racks & sturdier tires than the 23C's I have now. But until then I will take the lightest fastest bike I can afford and if it breaks I will simply buy a new one.