[ViBiker]

Since investigating musical BPM, (Beats Per Minute), and discovering that, for training purposes, a musical BPM of double the crank-pedal RPM, (cadence), is recommended, I will revise my BPMs as RPMs.
Best Cycling Songs

[qmsdc15]

120? But you've suggested "90bpm is, a more, top sustainable rate".

[Industry_Hack]

Originally Posted by ViBiker

Actually the rhythm works nicely as 120 BPM
The same rhythm works nicely at half rate speed, for 120 RPM.
Just adjust the timing, to revolution per footfall, instead of revolution per 2 footfalls.
In fact a cycling music site lists music by both speeds.
Best Cycling Songs

Between your incorrect use of acronyms and the simple comma, it's becoming more difficult to even follow your faulty logic.

A military march incorporates an average cadence of 120 RPM, but a footfall is not equal to a rotation of the cranks, since it is a step, rather than a revolution, and thereby the count will be twice as high. So it actually equates to a cycling cadence of 60 RPM, which is not so good on the joints, nor would it be an efficient use of the cardiovascular system. On the plus side, the website you linked to may be handy for those that cannot multiply or divide by two.

[qmsdc15]

It its not incorrect to use an abbreviation after first defining it. ViB defines his acronym (and upon interrogation explains why he didn't use RPM which might have been used without including definition). His post is correctly written if of limited usefulness.

Another I like to listen on rides;

The Wheel
(Garcia/Hunter/Kreutzmann)


The wheel is turning and you can't slow down,
You can't let go and you can't hold on,
You can't go back and you can't stand still,
If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will.

Won't you try just a little bit harder,
Couldn't you try just a little bit more?
Won't you try just a little bit harder,
Couldn't you try just a little bit more?

Round, round robin run round, got to get back to where you belong,
Little bit harder, just a little bit more,
A little bit further than you gone before.

The wheel is turning and you can't slow down,
You can't let go and you can't hold on,
You can't go back and you can't stand still,
If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will.

Small wheel turn by the fire and Rod,
Big wheel turn by the grace of God,
Every time that wheel turn 'round,
Bound to cover just a little more ground.

The wheel is turning and you can't slow down,
You can't let go and you can't hold on,
You can't go back and you can't stand still,
If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will.

Won't you try just a little bit harder,
Couldn't you try just a little bit more?
Won't you try just a little bit harder,
Couldn't you try just a little bit more?

[Industry_Hack]

Originally Posted by qmsdc15

It its not incorrect to use an abbreviation after first defining it. ViB defines his acronym (and upon interrogation explains why he didn't use RPM which might have been used without including definition). His post is correctly written if of limited usefulness.

Another I like to listen on rides;

The Wheel
(Garcia/Hunter/Kreutzmann)

[snip]

He's trying to present information that he thinks other people might find useful, but fails to realize that there's already widely accepted acronyms for his equation. Imagine someone trying to apply that new found knowledge at their LBS, and suggesting to the salesperson that they are most comfortable at 60 BPM.

I've always like the Dead, and even saw them in the 80's, in Long Beach. Not my crowd though. Of course, I'd rock one of Jerry's ties any time.

[ViBiker]

Originally Posted by qmsdc15

120? But you've suggested "90rpm is, a more, top sustainable rate".

Max recommended sustainable output seems to be at just around 100 - PPR (Preferred Pedal Rate)
Preferred Pedal Rate: An Index of Cycling Performance

Of course, since I often Sprinted my oem EZip at 25mph+
"26" wheels - My EZip Trailz (OEM)
(60rpm x 60min) x (44T/14T) x (26" x 3.14) / (12" x 5280') = 14.57mph
(90rpm x 60min) x (44T/14T) x (26" x 3.14) / (12" x 5280') = 21.86mph"
That means , for sprints, I often, briefly maintained ~115rpm.

And with my upgrade EZip I've attained 35mph with favorable tailwinds, and while drafting and on slight downgrades.
26" wheels - My EZip Trailz (w/32-11T upgrade)
"(60rpm x 60min) x (44T/11T) x (26" x 3.14) / (12" x 5280') = 18.55mph
(90rpm x 60min) x (44T/11T) x (26" x 3.14) / (12" x 5280') = 27.83mph"
Which is pushing near to 120rpm! By an old man in his mid 50's, with a bad heart.

Now I'm certain that my efforts could be exceeded by young, healthy, trained
athletes.
But, yes! Maximum sustainable PPR seems to be right near the 90rpm rate.

Sprints ... on the other hand are brief surges of speed, possibly pushing, well beyond the 120rpm range.
Spinning classes, indoor training etc, (places you should listen to music), might greatly exceed that, due to limited resistance?

[ViBiker]

Originally Posted by L********e

Good info, however, does it also take into account the extra torque needed for the higher speeds? The legs/motor still need to be able to maintain that kind of sustained power, and then there are the aerodynamic considerations, going from 20 MPH with X watts, isn't going to make 30 MPH with the same wattage even though you have mechanical advantage with gearing.

No, just pedal speed capability.

However ... variations of motor and gearings show the following, (real world), motor only top speeds, for my mountain bike style:
450 watt = 21-22 mph
675 watt = 27 mph
750 watt (1HP) = 30 mph
832 watt = 32 mph? (estimated from 44.4V pack)
(based on Li-ion batteries w/full charge)
"watts" are motors output watts ... not input watts.
Through a typical brushed permanent magnet motor, input watts would be ~20 - 25% higher.
Through a typical brushless permanent magnet motor, input watts would be ~15 - 20% higher.

I, of course, would like to keep my pedal assist capability, at noticeably past , motor only speed.
There is still motor assist applied, past the motor only speed ... it's just waiting ... for a little help, from me!

I can push my 675 watt, (27mph), EZips, past 30 mph, even to 35mph ... with a tailwind, or drafting.

[ViBiker]

I found a nice program ... after I did the figuring ...
Bicycle gear size and cadence/speed calculator

[ViBiker]

Originally Posted by ViBiker

No, just pedal speed capability.

However ... variations of motor and gearings show the following, (real world), motor only top speeds, for my mountain bike style:
450 watt = 21-22 mph
675 watt = 27 mph
750 watt (1HP) = 30 mph
832 watt = 32 mph? (estimated from 44.4V pack)
(based on Li-ion batteries w/full charge)
"watts" are motors output watts ... not input watts.
Through a typical brushed permanent magnet motor, input watts would be ~20 - 25% higher.
Through a typical brushless permanent magnet motor, input watts would be ~15% higher.

I, of course, would like to keep my pedal assist capability, at noticeably past , motor only speed.
There is still motor assist applied, past the motor only speed ... it's just waiting ... for a little help, from me!

I can push my 675 watt, (27mph), EZips, past 30 mph, even to 35mph ... with a tailwind, or drafting.

Took a bit of searching, but I found my graph, of gearing-voltage comparisons.
I even factored in road load and wind resistance:

[ViBiker]

Personally, my target speed for an eBike, or eaBike is 30mph.
This allows smooth blending with local traffic.
With a mountain (style) bike, I would estimate that 30mph (motor only) would require a 750watt motor (1hp), and proper gearing, of course.
A "road" bike (racing style) would require considerably less, possibly 500watt, due partly to less "road load", but mainly due to reduced wind resistance.
"Road load" might be a major factor, below 20mph, but beyond that, wind resistance, increases resistance, exponentially.