[IanHighfield]

lowracer:One more thought. You even mention in your post about cadence being kept down for aero reasons up front on a recumbent. All that churning of air with the front feet. And less pedal stroke count, less lateral sway. That would lend credence to what my old English chums had to say about their own experiments with bents. The design is flawed for top speed unless you fair it.

Once faired you have something interesting, but it's not a bike. It's an HPV. I like HPVs but they are not in the same realm as bicycles.

[BlazingPedals]

Originally Posted by IanHighfield

Once faired you have something interesting, but it's not a bike. It's an HPV.

A bicycle is an HPV - does that mean it's not a bicycle? Of course a faired bike is a bike.

[lowracer1]

I still don't know where he is getting this sway crap from....... Most of the recumbents I see hold a better line than most uprights.

[lowracer1]

It doesn't take the sharpest tool in the shed to decide which rider is the most aero.

[IanHighfield]

Lads, I've said my piece and you want none of it. This is not only understandable but square with me. We'll just have fun in our separate ways. No bad deal from here.

Ian

[BlazingPedals]

The racer-boys seem to forget the 20-35% of their body that's hanging down, perpendicular to the airflow no matter what they do with their upper body. Notice that even in the aerobar position, Garth's upper arms and lower legs are fully exposed and flat to the wind. A trained racer-boy can get lower, but only at the expense of lung constriction and it doesn't do anything about the flat-to-the-wind parts. Makes him a smaller brick, but still a brick. The superman position helped the arms at least, but it was banned because streamlining that much helped too much. OTOH, Warren's position is completely natural, like lying in bed, reading, with a pillow propping his head.

Man! My highracer only puts my head at saddle level; Garth must be getting nosebleeds sitting up that high.

[BlazingPedals]

Originally Posted by lowracer1

I still don't know where he is getting this sway crap from....... Most of the recumbents I see hold a better line than most uprights.

Low, it's a theory that his mentor/coach came up with to explain why his homebuilt lowrider sucked. After a lot of thought, I've decided that it's nothing we don't already know about, just stated differently. It's not significant except to him.

[IanHighfield]

Originally Posted by BlazingPedals

Low, it's a theory that his mentor/coach came up with to explain why his homebuilt lowrider sucked. After a lot of thought, I've decided that it's nothing we don't already know about, just stated differently. It's not significant except to him.

BlazePedals you seem to be making a career out of being wrong. First: The Superman Position is not banned in any trial event in the civilized world. Not in international competition and certainly not our UK trialling scene. I ride Superman style as does every other rider in the open class. How could you get this elemental point so painfully wrong?

As to homebuilt lowriders sucking. Most recumbent riders in my area ride commercial CF models from Italy, Australia and South Africa. Some riders do make their own, but from what I understand, you do too. Are your homebuilt bikes crap? My own master has done more all-around bike research in construction than you could ever hope to. His work includes bent models for he is a curious and competitive fellow. He was a pro rider from age 15. He's in his 60s now. All he's ever done is build and ride at a level of proficiency unknown in your clutch of picnic-day-riders as present in the videos you or the other mate was silly enough to include earlier. My god, that just about killed us blokes here around the shop having a peek. It showed more than you wanted or were aware of. You should not do that again if you hope to save any semblance face at all.

It's not my nature to get nasty, but you seem to have a mental block about recumbent speed. You really ought to get out into the real world of pro cycle racing (not your local club's milk-run) and have a better peek. You would be humbled and enlightened in one fell swoop. And if you were a decent chap, you'd come away with awareness and tad bit of shame for being such a truculent bore on this issue.

[IanHighfield]

It was just pointed out to me by one of my fossilized "old-timers" that I might be fishing in the landlord's own private pond. He said I should leave the bents to their single section in a rather diverse forum. He pointed out it's no place to battle when all the legion's around you and deafened by the sound of their own clanking armor.

Good advice, think I'll take it.

For all who have been interested, I bid goodbye on this channel.

Ian

[Oneway]

Gosh, I missed some of the fun!
Four rules:
1. I'm always right.
2. Only those misguided unfortunates who don't yet agree with me should be insulted and called names.
3. No name calling, insulting and very little cussing or spitting.
4. See #1.

The best bent is more aerodynamic than the best upright. I've done my own coasting downhill tests on different bikes. Woops, I didn't account for my bent weighing more but I still think bents are more aerodynamic, when both are unenclosed, when both are enclosed, when both weight the same.

There may be bent vs. upright differences in which muscles, how many muscles, friction in the drive train, leverage, wobble under time trial may be a factor when it is a non issue at my 300 watt output.

To Ian's existence proof, his observations of open TT racing are interesting. An upright might be a more efficient form to get professional race levels of energy out of a human to the tire on the road. The best race car for a short loop, dirt track doesn't look anything like a dragster, a Lemans racer or a NASCAR machine.

Anyway, I enjoy the good thinking by all the contributors and would truely love to meet some of the wizards and sleek bikes referenced in this thread; just keep in mind rule number 4.