Licensing?

Discussion in 'Activism / Safety' started by crazyjarhead, Nov 25, 2009.

  1. crazyjarhead

    crazyjarhead Guest

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    I've heard a lot of bicyclists express the desire to be treated just like any other vehicle. I share that sentiment. I recently read about an accident in which the bicyclist was at fault (crossed intersection against light). No license, no proof of insurance, left scene before police arrived. Car owner, with now damaged vehicle, was understandably upset.

    So here's my question: why aren't bicycles licensed and we required to carry insurance?
     
  2. crazyjarhead

    crazyjarhead Guest

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    I forgot to add that if this were to take place, I would want to see stricter testing of drivers. I see too many vehicle drivers that don't have a clue about what they are really doing. Driver's education is an oxymoron down here in Texas.

    Oh yeah and for god's sake start enforcing the insurance requirement. Don't have insurance? Hand over your keys moron.
     

  3. Industry_Hack

    Industry_Hack Total noob (& forum admin) Admin Staff Tavern Member

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    How would you price liability insurance for cyclists? And how often is a cyclist at fault for the damages?
     
  4. crazyjarhead

    crazyjarhead Guest

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    Good question. Unfortunately, I'm not an acturial accountant (my parents were married :D).

    I'm sure there are some smart risk managers out there that could come up with the approapriate numbers. Certainly, there are accident statistics and police reports to start with.
     
  5. HandsomeRyan

    HandsomeRyan ♥'s Bicycles

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    This is a very slippery slope. If you require cyclists to have insurance to ride, why not make pedestrians carry ID and liability insurance too?
     
  6. crazyjarhead

    crazyjarhead Guest

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    very good point - my inner idealist libertarian is screaming why have insurance/licensing at all - regardless of which mode of transport you use
     
  7. Industry_Hack

    Industry_Hack Total noob (& forum admin) Admin Staff Tavern Member

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    Actually, pedestrians are required to carry ID.
     
  8. crazyjarhead

    crazyjarhead Guest

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    and thus the reason our founding fathers are spinning in their graves....but I think he meant to say that pedestrians could be licensed....wouldn't that be interesting

    a whole host of rules about cell phones, texting, smoking, eating, talking........while walking
     
  9. London

    London Guest

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    License and registration would not have made the cyclist stay at the scene. They acted in a criminal manner. This is inbred.

    No to any kind of action that would take more money from cyclists and gain them no profit. Why a person would think this a good idea is baffling to me.
     
  10. London

    London Guest

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    Not in Massachusetts they are not. Not yet, anyway.

    I have lived here all my life and have asked this question of policemen I personally know. It's only required in this state while operating a motor vehicle on a public way. You can walk or cycle with no ID. Even do it in thong. No ID required.
     
  11. crazyjarhead

    crazyjarhead Guest

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    wouldn't it be neat if U.S. law were to follow the Netherlands? there the legal presumption of liability is on the motor vehicle...makes motorists more aware of cyclists http://bicycling.com/blogs/roadrights/2009/06/22/why-we-need-cycling-insurance/

    in the U.S. cyclists are subject to the whims of the police investigating the crash and more often than not, the presumption is the cyclist was at fault
     
  12. Industry_Hack

    Industry_Hack Total noob (& forum admin) Admin Staff Tavern Member

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    What if you are out late, walking, and stopped by the police? As far as I'm aware, all states require some sort of ID.
     
  13. London

    London Guest

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    This is a common misunderstanding. Speaking only for my state, it is not written in any law or regulation that a person must have ID in public unless operating a motor vehicle. What happens is a cop picks up a person who they (the cops) thinks is doing something wrong or just looks "suspicious". The person does not have ID so the cops use that as reason to take the "suspect" into the station for positive ID purposes. Technically the cops can do this. It does not mean you have to carry ID. There is no penalty for having no ID because it is not required or against the law. Many cops do not even know this.

    I can not speak for other states but I think a careful examination of this issue would show a similar case in all states as this is a federal issue of personal rights similiar to freedom of speech, assembly etc. But if you know for a fact (find the law written in state law) I'll be convinced otherwise and very disappointed for what we've become as a nation.
     
  14. Industry_Hack

    Industry_Hack Total noob (& forum admin) Admin Staff Tavern Member

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    I think that in Australia, there was a fine for an adult not having ID. Maybe I'm getting confused.
     
  15. TxCyclist

    TxCyclist Administrator Staff Member Admin Staff

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    You are not required to carry ID at least here in Texas.

    Licenses and insurance for cyclists seems like a terrible idea. I think rarely a cyclist at fault in accident is going to be able to run away. Also lots of people cycle cause their dirt poor and can't afford a car. I'm not open to more Government esp. regulations that would negatively effect the poor.
     
  16. Industry_Hack

    Industry_Hack Total noob (& forum admin) Admin Staff Tavern Member

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    I think London's explanation makes sense, the part where they can take you in for not having ID, but not having ID is not in itself and offense, whereas in Australia, I think it was an offence.
     
  17. London

    London Guest

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    Hack, I'm perfectly capable of various errors but this one I'm quite sure of in my state. I think I read that Australia has an ID national law. This is not a good thing in my eyes. I can't put a finger on why I dislike it, it just doesn't feel good. Too many books like "1984" I guess.
     
  18. CTD50

    CTD50 DX's Biggest Member

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    Actually, it depends on the state you're living in. Overall, it's a pretty oppressive ideal on the part of some to require ID to be carried by ALL citizens at all times.
     
  19. CTD50

    CTD50 DX's Biggest Member

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    As I understand it, there are states out there that you can carry "no-fault" insurance, everyone just takes care of their own costs, and (I assume) the insurance companies sort out the liability amongst themselves.

    That's really the way it ought to be; levels the playing field. If you are at-fault in an accident, your carrier takes care of you, theirs takes care of them; then, because YOU were at fault, their carrier comes after yours to recoup. THAT would be the determining factor in your rates going up.

    Now, IF someone wanted to require cyclists to carry coverage, well, how about at coverage limits of 10% that og the cars, and 10% of the premium? Heck, my last insurance bill (2004, monthly premium) was $29 & change. I'll pay $3 a month to keep myself covered!

    But, I'm just daydreaming here...to expect an insurance carrier to do the right thing for the public, well, that's JUST CRAZY TALK!
     
  20. Industry_Hack

    Industry_Hack Total noob (& forum admin) Admin Staff Tavern Member

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    I live in a no-fault state. I'm currently preparing to sue the other insurance company for denying my injury claim, and honestly, I think I would have been better off shooting their driver and throwing his body in a dumpster. My car still would have been fixed.