[Martin_EV4]

We have recently introduced a new product to the market and we would like to know what do you think of it in terms of the design and looks alone. If you're interested in technical specs they can be found our website however this is not the reason why I'm here. Besides, they don't really matter since you can buy the stripped version for your own electrification and do whatever you want with it.

My friend designed this bike and honestly I'm not a fan but I know people that love it. I'm wondering what people think in general. Any feedback will be very appreciated.

 

[i12ride]

I don't know what to think about that or do with it. Not sure what it accomplishes but sure I don't want to know what car price goes with it. Looks like a multitasking festival of some sort - lot going on there. All of that and no lighting or reflectors? Wondering why a 3 wheeler needs a kickstand.

 

[kneedrachen]

if it tilts, it probably lacks a lock-out, hence the need for a kickstand

 

[i12ride]

In all that fanciness there's no lockout? Seems that would make more sense that adding the additional weight of a kickstand.

 

[John_V]

Looks very heavy and awkward to handle but I'm sure it would be a good bike for someone with balance issues.

 

[Martin_EV4]

Looks very heavy and awkward to handle but I'm sure it would be a good bike for someone with balance issues.

Not really, this bike rides just like a normal one, you have to balance. The tilting mechanism isn't self balancing.

 

[Martin_EV4]

I don't know what to think about that or do with it. Not sure what it accomplishes but sure I don't want to know what car price goes with it. Looks like a multitasking festival of some sort - lot going on there. All of that and no lighting or reflectors? Wondering why a 3 wheeler needs a kickstand.

We have plans to add a lighting system. Apart from a unique look, the 2 wheels at the front give the bike more stability, stopping power and traction from the doubled footprint. The ride in general is much smoother and in case of a front wheel lock or loss of traction the bike won't slip away from under the rider - it moves sideways. I've been riding on them many times and to be honest they give me so much confidence that I keep pushing the bike to the limit, not worried of falling on gravel for example.
There are scooters on the market that have 2 front wheels for the very same reason. You can ride on any dirt road without worrying about falling.

 

[maelochs]

Who is the intended customer? I can see an electrified trike scooter for people who need mobility and have balance issues ... this would get them out of the house and give them a little exercise. But are those people we want out in traffic on major roads where the speed and pavement quality might make suspensions necessary?

Nothing against this product, but what niche does it fill? What does it replace?

Obviously it can still tip over. That takes away the safety/elderly/immobility scooter market. With all that gearing it appears to be designed for varied terrain and a bit of speed, so it is meant for over-the-road transport. The basket is a joke for any sort of utility use though, and it doesn't have anywhere to hang panniers.

A much bigger question---the seat looks to be right over the bottom bracket. That can't be an efficient or comfortable pedaling position.

It's not a recumbent, it's not a utility vehicle, I don't see where it offers any benefit over a regular trike for utility or a recumbent trike for road riding.

Who is this aimed at?

 

[Martin_EV4]

Who is the intended customer? I can see an electrified trike scooter for people who need mobility and have balance issues ... this would get them out of the house and give them a little exercise. But are those people we want out in traffic on major roads where the speed and pavement quality might make suspensions necessary?

Nothing against this product, but what niche does it fill? What does it replace?

Obviously it can still tip over. That takes away the safety/elderly/immobility scooter market. With all that gearing it appears to be designed for varied terrain and a bit of speed, so it is meant for over-the-road transport. The basket is a joke for any sort of utility use though, and it doesn't have anywhere to hang panniers.

A much bigger question---the seat looks to be right over the bottom bracket. That can't be an efficient or comfortable pedaling position.

It's not a recumbent, it's not a utility vehicle, I don't see where it offers any benefit over a regular trike for utility or a recumbent trike for road riding.

Who is this aimed at?

Does it have to fill in a niche? No, it's a bike that is different than other bikes on the market (where you can find 100's of them - practically the same). It doesn't have a designated target group but from sales we see that mostly middle age and retired people buy it. Besides it's not a scooter, it's classified as an electric bike and that's a big difference. On our website you can check out a version with bigger, front and rear baskets, and panniers.

I already explained about the benefit of having 2 wheels at the front in the post above. Other than that I never said anything about the bike having any benefits over other bikes on the market.

 

[kneedrachen]

So, I had a Piaggio MP3 500 and it (like the new models coming up from the Japanese 4) had a locking mechanism for the front end. Granted, it unlocked at speeds over (IIRC) 5 MPH, but it was useful for parking. While I see where you are going with your project, I think you'll have some stiff competition from the established recumbent industry. Things like the Sidewinder didn't fare so well due to their difficulty in use. I would suggest (since you are soliciting opinions) to consider a lock-out for the front end so it translates in to a stable 3 wheeled tadpole trike. To me, the bigger questions revolve around benefits due to the increased weight, complexity and drag of the two front tires and front end material. The gist of not falling over on gravel is bogus, if it leans to maintain its direction, there's slip angle and friction and you can still fall. If you could carry a significant more amount of weight for utility, well, now we're looking at an advantage vs. a bakfiets or boxbike, right? all of the utility plus the ability to manuever via counter-steering?

 

[Martin_EV4]

So, I had a Piaggio MP3 500 and it (like the new models coming up from the Japanese 4) had a locking mechanism for the front end. Granted, it unlocked at speeds over (IIRC) 5 MPH, but it was useful for parking. While I see where you are going with your project, I think you'll have some stiff competition from the established recumbent industry. Things like the Sidewinder didn't fare so well due to their difficulty in use. I would suggest (since you are soliciting opinions) to consider a lock-out for the front end so it translates in to a stable 3 wheeled tadpole trike. To me, the bigger questions revolve around benefits due to the increased weight, complexity and drag of the two front tires and front end material. The gist of not falling over on gravel is bogus, if it leans to maintain its direction, there's slip angle and friction and you can still fall. If you could carry a significant more amount of weight for utility, well, now we're looking at an advantage vs. a bakfiets or boxbike, right? all of the utility plus the ability to manuever via counter-steering?

Thank you for your comment. I wouldn't compare this trike to a recumbent though, it's closer to a traditional bike mainly because of the seating position. As maelochs noticed in an earlier post the bike also has pedals moved slightly back which results in a more upright position (not entirely under the seat btw).
For your information we're in designing stage for a proper recumbent bike =)
The vehicle was designed for 100 kg with a big safety margin. We tested it and a 130 kg rider is not a problem. Provided you whey ~85 kg you could easily put 15 kg in the rear and 30 kg in the front basket. Whether this is much or not I think depends on what you're carrying. It obviously can't compare to a utility bike with 200 kg. carry capacity.

 

[Pamela Burr]

Completely agree, it looks very awkward and difficult to handle.

 

[maelochs]

The vehicle was designed for 100 kg with a big safety margin.

Are you joking? I weigh more than 100 kg dry and naked. I think a lot of the people (middle-aged and more) who might want to try an electric bike/trike ... well, I am not abnormally oversized.

Here in the u.S. men over 1.85 meter and 100 kg are not unusual .... and the older and fatter, the more an electric cycle would appeal ... except this one is unsafe even unloaded?

I weighed over 125 kg at one point and still could load my bike with 30-40 kg of gear or groceries with no issues.

What you have here is interesting ... and while it doesn't have to "fill a niche" or "replace" something in a niche .... it has to find a market, right? I am not trying to squelch the designer's creativity ... but if it doesn't offer anything but novelty, you might find that no one will be willing to pay a big ticket for a novelty.

How would you sell it? How would you do a feature/benefit breakdown? What would be the attractive features? It is less stable than a trike, no more stable than a bike, and weighs as much as a trike and more than a bike ... so it would have less range, less safety, and minimal carrying capacity.

Where is this designed to run? On roads with other bikes and cars? Only in quiet suburban neighborhoods? On MUPs? On unpaved trails? Where does it offer an Advantage?

I look at new products as a potential investor might, and as a salesman might. How would I sell it, who would I sell it to, how would I make back my money?

Sometimes I might underestimate the illogical appeal of a certain product ... maybe I am in this case. But it seems to me the market you are aiming at is small enough that people looking to lay out serious money (a couple to a few grand is the starting price for real electric bikes around where I live) would do a little research and not be so much moved by impulse buying or surface appeal.

It will be interesting to see if I ever see one of these on the road ... or even see an ad for one.

One never knows what might attract the attention of people looking to buy stuff.

 

[longjohn]

I’ll bet you could sell some. There are people out there that will buy anything strange. They like to be different.

 

[maelochs]

I’ll bet you could sell some. There are people out there that will buy anything strange. They like to be different.

I completely agree. Plus, a good salesman can take a spark of interest and turn it into a burning desire to own ... not that s/he should, necessarily ... but for people who like the novelty and don't really think it through .... ("You don't own a Pet Rock yet? What are you waiting for??!!")

My question, from the investor angle would be, could I find enough suckers, I mean customers, to pay for production, promotion, and distribution.

A lot of ideas fail not because no one liked them, but because not enough people liked them.

I have never watched "Shark Tank," but I picture a panel of potential investors doing the same math I am doing .... and this idea not making it to Round Two.