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Minoura Kagura

2K views 9 replies 4 participants last post by  Germanrazor 
#1 ·
Anyone here that routinely uses a bike trainer and specifically a smart trainer? I have had regular trainers in the past but due to the interactive cycling resources, I have purchased a smart trainer. I went with the Minoura due to a few things. I did not want to sink a boat load into a trainer when all I need is one that is compatible with most interactive cycling resources.

The Minoura Kagura got pretty good reviews overall and was sub $400. That said, I have done Sufferfest in the past, the old version, but may try their 14 day free trial of the interactive once I get the trainer in to see. Zwift is the other but wonder what you folks may use and would recommend?
 
#2 ·
There are two distinct camps here- 3 if you count those like @John_V who flat out despise them :D. I use and like Zwift( because its rained forever and a day I started the 2020 Zwift Academy today). I've tried them all and keep coming back to Zwift.

There are a few of us that get together during the winter months and do group rides which is a welcome change of pace to workouts or other "free" rides. Generally I end up riding wit @Hazy, who can't be bothered to log in here anymore :D, but we stay in touch. I like the meetups and no drop rides that can be done in there.

Trainerroad, even tho it's changing, was just to bland and in the past served just one purpose and that made it mundane for me. Absolutely great software and training if that's all you wanted from it but like I said, I understand it's changing. It also costs a bit more than Zwift that last that I had checked.

Welp, there you have it. My opinion and we all know what those are worth :D Jump on Zwift and we can do a meetup and ride on day!
 
#3 · (Edited)
I’m a TrainerRoad guy. I cribbed this from my post in the What the heck is Zwift thread, with some edits. I’ve screen shotted a lot of TR workouts in the did you ride today thread. If you like, pm me with your email address and I can get you a free month.

TrainerRoad consists of structured plans that start with laying a base, building on it, and then fine tuning your fitness to arrive in peak condition for a goal event. Base is anywhere from 12 to 16 weeks, build is 8 weeks, followed by specialty which is 8 weeks. As such the entire course is 28-32 weeks. There are low, mid, and high volume plans that range from 3 rides at 3.5 hours per week to 5-6 rides at about 9 hours per week. I do low volume as I still ride outside 1-2 days per week during the course of completing the three phases. During Covid I’ve reduced outdoor riding significantly and stopped all group rides, so I’m now doing 4-5 rides a week, which is mid volume. I’m in between plans at the moment because you can’t really ride structure 52 weeks a year. Ideally if you want to be in top shape for a goal event you just count backward 28-32 weeks before the event and begin the program at that time

The premise is that fitness gains occur as a result of workouts focusing on a percentage of your functional threshold power, or FTP, basically your "hour power" or what your best effort in a one hour time trial would be. Your FTP is tested not by riding all out for an hour but by either an hour long workout in which you do 2 efforts at 8 minutes or one effort at 20 minutes, or by a "ramp test" where power rises 6% percent every minute and you ride until failure. Your FTP is extrapolated from your watts on those efforts and that number guides the remaining workouts in the plan. Endurance rides are maybe 50-70% FTP, and those percentages rise through tempo, sub-threshold, threshold, super-threshold, VO2 max, and anaerobic efforts, with the harder workouts left to the build and specialty phases. Plan workouts range from 60 minutes to two hours for the most part. There is no workout shorter than an hour nor longer than 90 minutes in the low volume plan, until the last week of specialty when you taper and the rides are 30-45 minutes. Mid and high volume plans have long rides of 2 hours.

FTP is re-tested at the end of base, build, and specialty to track your improvements. There is a recovery week every 4th week in the plans to guard against over doing it. At my age, 63, I’m beyond being able to continually get faster. I’m at 3.4 w/kg, and the goal is just to maintain that for as long as I can against the inevitable decline. High intensity interval training is really the only way to try to lessen the effects of the gradual drop in heart rate and stroke volume that comes with age.

When I completed the three phases last year I did all my riding outside. I would do an occasional TR workout on rainy days or if I was time crunched and couldn't get outside. That meant that my rides from late May through mid-November were all outside. Structured training probably isn't everyone's cup of tea. I really like it. I get to make the most of the limited time I have to ride, about 325-350 hours per year.
 
#4 ·
First @Merlincustom very nice w/kg! 63 just means you ride more consistent(to maintain that fitness level) perhaps more cunning (maybe a poor adjective) rider now.

The person I ride with most is also 63 and when he has a mind to he'll kick yer azz. He's mostly mellowed now and does his own thing and doesn't worry to much with others. He's almost @ 6k in mileage this year. He's equally as savvy on a mountain bike.
https://www.strava.com/athletes/56210?oq=an

We ride with another older Gentleman James Macdonald who is 77 and pretty much still kicks azz - https://www.strava.com/athletes/2113226. I still remember the first time I meet him, we were doing the Cap2Cap 100 miler and he showed up on a fixie....found him waiting for us at the first rest stop :D

All this yammering to say, regardless of what you choose cycling is a beautiful way to stay fit and active throughout life!

Not for nothing but Zwift has the same kind of structured workouts - https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/10-12wk-ftp-builder/

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#5 ·
Like rola said, I really do hate trainers but I do use them when recovering from injuries. I think that has been four times over the last ten years. Having year round riding, here in Florida, also keeps me from having a need to use a trainer. I guess I would have a different attitude if I had to use on during the winter every year.

That said, many of the competitive cyclist that I know tend to go with Zwift. Even the one pro rider that I know uses Zwift exclusively. Since COVID, the entire team trains on it and all their pro races are done via Zwift. If I was looking to use a virtual ride package, I guess I would go with Zwift.

BTW, if you’re interested in virtual riding with a pro, follow Amanda Coker (Team Twenty20) on Strava. She does weekly rides that she shares with her followers. You may even catch another pro or two joining in on the ride.
 
#6 ·
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Are there more ways to calculate FTP? I use as you know the Assioma power meter pedals along with the Garmin Connect to run the calculations and I come nowhere near double digit in W/Kg rating and it states my numbers are in the excellent category. I saw the post where it stated a W/Kg @ 63! Geeeeez.....I must be a turtle smoking unfiltered Camel cigarettes!

My understanding on how GC with the metrics from Assioma calculated the value for my rides to date was taking my weight in Kg and divided that into my FTP setting of 331 W. Now how they calculated the 331 I have no idea.

Here is the screen shot......

I am just wondering if there are different ways to calculate for your zones you fall into?
 
#8 ·
View attachment 49110 Are there more ways to calculate FTP? I use as you know the Assioma power meter pedals along with the Garmin Connect to run the calculations and I come nowhere near double digit in W/Kg rating and it states my numbers are in the excellent category. I saw the post where it stated a W/Kg @ 63! Geeeeez.....I must be a turtle smoking unfiltered Camel cigarettes!

My understanding on how GC with the metrics from Assioma calculated the value for my rides to date was taking my weight in Kg and divided that into my FTP setting of 331 W. Now how they calculated the 331 I have no idea.

Here is the screen shot......

I am just wondering if there are different ways to calculate for your zones you fall into?
First, if you hit double digits in w/kg your my hero! No one maintains that kind of w/kg for more than a handful of seconds. 3.97 w/kg is pretty damn good. I'm closer to 2.6-3 on an average ride. Last year while I was doing tons of group rides 3.3 was about my average w/kg. Oddly I feel like a much stronger rider this year even tho my avg power is lower :D

As an example -
The data confirmed what Vila said. Sagan, during an 18-second period of the Tour of Suisse’s stage 5, produced an average of 1,220 watts. Over that time, he reached 76.2 kilometers an hour and peaked at 1,417 watts — enough to power a small space heater or an espresso machine.

It must be an average of you rides to date with the new pedals.

FTP is calculated by a test either by a ramp test or a more traditional way of a 20 minute ride at the max you can sustain over that time basically...I just did a ramp test night and it sucks/sucked :D

331 watts should be the average power over time you produced in whatever ride you did. Trying to compare watts and w/kg is fuzzy business

Most pro cyclists produce about 200 to 300 watts on average during a four-hour tour stage. ...
It's a bit dated and power is prolly up a bit more but you get the point.
https://furthermore.equinox.com/articles/2015/06/how-to-train-with-watts

The fastest guy I know locally averaged 260 watts ( I'm sure that's normalized power )with a 23.8 mph avg for example and he's a big guy close to you( or bigger)
in kilograms. This is from a ride the call "The Battle of Fenton Mill", I don't bother with even trying anymore, I can ride solo anywhere :D
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He does give me bike jealousy I must admit...sorry straying way off topic :-/
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Sorry this is a bit all over the place and prolly did nothing to answer you questions.
 
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#7 · (Edited)
I suggest two ways to test. Warm up easy for a bit, maybe 10-15 minutes, do a hard minute or 2, easy recovery for a few minutes, repeat the hard effort and recovery again, and then go as hard as you can maintain for 20 minutes. 95% of that 20 minute average power is right around your ftp. Or after the same warm up, go as hard as you can for 8 minutes, recover very easy for 10 minutes, and go 8 hard again. The average of the 2 8 minute efforts x 90% is the ftp. Hard to tell from what you describe where the 331w came from. Did you do some kind of workout that was labeled Ftp test? I don’t think an average of “rides to date” is a way to measure ftp.
 
#9 ·
I suggest two ways to test. Warm up easy for a bit, maybe 10-15 minutes, do a hard minute or 2, easy recovery for a few minutes, repeat the hard effort and recovery again, and then go as hard as you can maintain for 20 minutes. 95% of that 20 minute average power is right around your ftp. Or after the same warm up, go as hard as you can for 8 minutes, recover very easy for 10 minutes, and go 8 hard again. The average of the 2 8 minute efforts x 90% is the ftp. Hard to tell from what you describe where the 331w came from. Did you do some kind of workout that was labeled Ftp test?
I have read exactly what you stated here on the minutes and intensity to measure FTP. Thank you.
 
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